Backcountry Flying (i.e. Idaho)

[Larry Mednick]

Regarding things like shown in the above example, yes, sure no problem. A quick search for Larson’s Adventures or TTabs on YouTube will show examples of trikes doing what I think you are asking about.

Truthfully most pilots flying actual STOL planes (not a Kit Fox) are not using the full capabilities of their plane anyway. BUT when you get the right STOL plane in the hands of the right pilot, the results are insane. Meaning they are able to use 100-250 foot landing areas. This is where a trike cannot compete. But if you are wanting to land on 900 foot strips and explore the mountains, then you don’t really need a true STOL plane anyway.

Typical STOL performance looks like 17 MPH stall with 100+ MPH top speed. Typical trike is either 28 MPH a stall with 60 MPH top speed or 35+ mph stall with a 80+ mph top speed. There are exceptions, but the fixed wing speed range is unchallenged by trikes against slatted winged STOL Bush Planes

The real question is after flying a trike, is the airplane fun enough to not want to be in a trike covering the same land scape.

[Larry Mednick]

ROAD TRIP

https://youtu.be/PEq4DGu7zM0ROAD TRIP
https://youtu.be/PEq4DGu7zM0

[Roger B]

Thanks for the detailed reply! That Montana flying is a dream, reminds me of the alps 🙂

I’m leaning more towards the Revo for speed – so for the Revo, when do you decide to take the Rival S vs the Rival X? For backcountry its always the X right?

[Larry Mednick]

Dancing with Revolts Desert Trike Flying by Larson Adventures.

https://youtu.be/gNmaytxXFOIDancing with Revolts Desert Trike Flying by Larson Adventures.
https://youtu.be/gNmaytxXFOI

[Diane Larson]

Spectacular Road Trip to Montana!! Beautiful!

[Roger Larson]

I have not seen a back country landing strip (not yet anyways) that i could not land on. Here are some thoughts. I have seen some dirt roads that were too risky, Different set ups for different trikes can make a big difference. The best that you could do in a trike for landing in very short distances would be a larger single surface wing, Large tires with lower tire pressure, and as light of a load as possible and a very low density altitude and a headwind. Give me a 45 mile an hour headwind and i will land on a single rock.

I have a double surface wing so it flies faster than a single surface wing, I do have larger tires than most but I am almost always pretty heavy because of myself and my passenger, lots of fuel, cameras, safety equipment, extra water etc. My biggest concern for myself is if I am landing out in the middle of nowhere will i pick up a rock in my prop? Being a pusher setup there is more possibility of that happening. Not hitting your brakes when landing would possibly not kick up rocks as much and protect the prop. There is one location i land and it is pretty rocky, bumpy ground and kind of short. So Ido have to use my brakes landing there. so the second i know it is a good landing and there will be no issues, i Turn XXX my motor. :). Then i hit my brakes pretty hard. i would not advise anyone to do that.

When landing on a new remote location for the first time, i first check the area for power lines, fences and other possible obstacles. Then i fly low (1 foot or less above the runway) and look at the surface. Any higher than that you can’t really see what your landing on. I also notice if there is an uphill or downhill. in many of the areas in the backcountry around here there just happen to be a sand wash cutting through the landing area. So flying low you can see that, notice how deep it is and if it is possible to land. The final thing i do is determine the winds i am landing in. i use gps to determine which direction to land, i am looking for the lowest ground speed. If you’r wondering if the landing area is long enough you can use a count method to determine approximate feet. At 60 miles an hour, every second is 88 feet. Just remember there are lots of factors that determine how quickly you can get off the ground when taking off , and also when landing how quickly you can stop. If you know your are cutting it close (risky) it is better to fly away and enjoy the flight rather than taking a chance on something too risky.

Watch some of those Trent Palmer type videos and you will see some crashes. They can be amazing pilots (skills) and have amazing planes but still, they find themselves with a damaged plane in the middle of nowhere.

In a trike i know one thing, I had more fun flying there. Diane just put her flight suit on so i got to go. Ha, true.

[Roger B]

Hey Roger, Those are some points I hadn’t considered for a trike. With my paramotor if there’s rocks I usually also shut the motor off before landing for the same reason. The circle / multiple passes with gps to figure wind is standard for me since it can vary so much when you’re at ground level on certain days,, agreed.

Do you feel a lot of the flying you do on the Revolt you wouldn’t be able to do on the Revo?

Is there anyway to get the cruise speed higher on a Revolt by taking a Rival S or a faster wing?

[Larry Mednick]

Hi Roger B, the first thing I will say regardless of brand trike is that wheel pants are your worst nightmare when it comes to unimproved landing areas. And the REVO like most 80+ MPH podded trikes cannot fly without them because of the spat attached to them. The REVO requires literally double the takeoff and landing distance of a REVOLT. The REVO is not STOL at all… but again if you want to land on 1500’ grass strips then great!

The limitation of the top speed on the REVOLT is the drag cubing with speed on a draggy carriage. The drag is double from 60 to 80 MPH and the REVO has only 1/2 the drag. However that drag is what allows high energy approaches in heavy turbulence not to run you off the end of the runway.

We used to bring a 12m RIVAL S to Oshkosh which is 1100’ sloped with trees at 1 end and a tree line next to the runway. One of our REVO guys would struggle both on takeoff up hill with obstacles when there was a strong crosswind and landing downhill from over the obstacle when the Xwind was strong. Then he switched to a RIVAL X and no longer is it close, but he uses 80% of the runway on high Xwind days due to higher approach speeds and Xwinds drastically increase ground roll in a trike for take off. By comparison the REVOLT with RIVAL X wing only needs about 1/2 the runway and the REV X only 1/4 the runway. Although it’s only 2 up that the REVO with RIVAL S had an issue on the challenging strip 1 up cuts things down nearly in half. But that’s true on real STOL planes as well

As mentioned before you can have the top end without the slow end or the slow end without much top end. Trikes have a limited speed range in general which means they seldom can do both well.

[Roger B]

Thanks for the thorough replies Larry 🙂

If i’m looking for the high top speed and range it seems the Revo might be a better bet and to be picky with landing areas. If the runway is sub 1500 come 1 up if its 1500+ 2 up sounds like it’ll be fine. Also seems like a Rival X for grass strips and an S for longer cross country cruising would make sense.

How much of a difference in takeoff distance do the prop options make i.e. 2 blade vs 4 or 6 blade e-prop?

Also, the revo has 700 series tundra tires as an option, do those help at all?

[Larry Mednick]

The props are all very efficient. You might shave 10% off of your takeoff distance with more blades, but it’s not going to change what you can and can’t do with the trike.

The larger tires on a grease strip are difficult to tell any advantage. If you were on sand it would add some real world benefit.

Both options are nice and popular, but not game changing like the wing selection for example.

[Roger Larson]

Could i fly with a Revo? Larry has the science down.

I can fly with a Revo if they didn’t mind me arriving slightly later than they do, just like when i fly with slower trikes. I love to fly with slower trikes because it gives me more time to zoom around and have fun. If all my buddies had a Revo I might buy a Revo and fly the type of flying they do. If all my buddies had a single surface wing and was landing in every sand wash they could find, i might buy a single surface wing and join them. Maybe even change my tires.

I do plan on flying with a REVO in the near future to film some documentary footage in southern Arizona. The pilot of the REVO will have to look in his rear view mirror for me at times, but will also have to look down as i am flying slowly around the historical sites i want to film.

I am going to post a new discussion under “questions i get asked”. You might find some other info there that might be useful.

[Paul Hamilton]

Roger,

Yes you can fly easily with a Revo. I typically trim to 60 indicated to get my best climb rate. The Revo with a 12.4 meter wing flies very comfortably with a Revolt 14 meter. I was surprised at how fast the Revolt trimmed out for the draggy configuration. So both can trim out to 70 indicated additionally and you are good to go.